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Mnemosyne's avatar

To me it sounds like you've built a ton of assumptions upon assumptions here. And I'd say the problem with this debate is that no one seems to be able to know when to just stop.

We entered hyperreality a long time ago. False can only become more false. So it doesn't matter how much we're all gonna be going on about this, it wont change what the truth is.

When you're going to call it a vitamin, when it's really a secosteroid, already there it changes the subconscious perception of what we're dealing with.

People who are 'anti vitamin D' aren't saying don't eat animal foods and to not go out in the sun. 'We' (I think it's not helpful to be dividing people into two groups, what happened to come to your own conclusions?) are arguing for the case that supplementing is unnecessary and can in fact be dangerous.

Haven't seen anyone mention sulfur metabolism, water solubility of all the many different metabolites of this secosteroid there seem to exist vs the form you supplement with.

How do you know the body has the capacity to be handling that and not see any negative consequences whatsoever? How much are we able to store in and release from our adipose tissues? How do we know that what is assumed to be a deficiency is a proven to have a causative relationship with people's hypothyroid symptoms and not just a downstream effect?

I could keep asking questions. I haven't found any answers, nor have anyone been able to answer them for me from what I've seen.

I don't think specificity is such a high government principle in the cell as we think it is. I think Pollack is right in that it comes down to the charge environment. Beyond that - aren't we just mostly guessing still? Another example we know is the mixed serotonin agonists and antagonists, that still don't seem to be understood very well? So does 'vitamin' D completely operate in isolation from everything else in the cell that affect the environment? Seems sulfate is very important here for one.

https://medium.com/@JosephGiacona/the-current-vitamin-d-craze-is-not-harmless-39f8fb3f8960

- I also ended up with the same debilitating back pain, couldn't work nor move for about a week and pain lingered for months, which I ascribe to lack of an inflammatory response to guide my immune system. Because I experienced something similar again after being careless with my eating, only this time the pain was completely gone after two days of letting things run their course (no aspirin either). An excessive inflammatory response is prob what you want to be guarded against. But I do think the body is being given way too little credit in being able to fix stuff on its own - just like it isn't trusted that it can figure out which D metabolites it might need when and where.

We have to start with establishing how we know:

1. what is real

2. what is the truth.

Otherwise you can just go on and on forever here, approximating reality so much that you'll eat your own tail. While looking out into reality and talking to people about their experiences gives a different picture (yes, I am one of those who stopped using it in various ways and got better from it).

I don't think anyone is going to have problems as such from using a few hundred IUs, but once we move into the thousands, that's where things get more murky. And let's not forget our default state is to NOT be taking this secosteroid as a 'supplement' to begin with.

I decided to stop supplementing 1.5 years ago until I could have a final answer as to what the truth here really is. I figured 2-3 years down the line would give me all the answers I ever needed (given that I live in Scandinavia and am dark skinned).

If you're interested, maybe you could dive into Selye's Calciphylaxis https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.141725/page/n3/mode/2up - I got a copy about a year ago, but personally just haven't had the time and as time passed, I lost interest in it because I started seeing improvements in symptoms after stopping.

'Poe imagines the situation in which a sailor, who has gone out on a fishing expedition, finds himself caught in a huge maelstrom or whirlpool. He sees that his boat will be sucked down into this thing. He begins to study the action of the ström, and observes that some things disappear and some things reappear. By studying those things that reappear and attaching himself to one of them, he saves himself. Pattern recognition in the midst of a huge, overwhelming, destructive force is the way out of the maelstrom. The huge vortices of energy created by our media present us with similar possibilities of evasion of consequences of destruction. By studying the patterns of the effects of this huge vortex of energy in which we are involved, it may be possible to program a strategy of evasion and survival. (...)'

- Marshall McLuhan

At the end of the day all we have to go by is pattern recognition. If it isn't consistent is isn't true. This debate is a great example of dichotomania. And we need to realize we are dealing in the abstract as well.

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Dirk's avatar

D3 supplementation changed my life: I went from one respiratory infection after another with the doctors saying they would only worsen with age. No physician ever suggested a test to determine my Vitamin D levels. Years later, respiratory infections are a thing of the past.

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